Digital Camera

[Todd]

I am in the market for a digital camera, so I figured I could tap into the vast knowlege of the Turkeys. I'm not made of money and I'm looking for something portable. I need to know how many pixils, magnification, etc. I know the more the better, but see criteria number one. This camera will go with me to Montana later this month and will be used to take pictures of all of you, so what do you think?

Thanks, Todd

[Dave]

I recently picked up a Pentax Optio WP. It is a nice little camera. It's 5.0 Megapixels with a 3X Optical Zoom plus 2X digital. I'm finding that the full autofocus is a little finickey when you're taking pictures on the open water, it doesn't seem to know what to focus on sometimes, but I think that is pretty common with point and shoots. (I should let Steve try it sometime, then I'll know if its me or the camera.) It is completely waterproof to 5 feet, and very small, to fit conveniently in your pfd or lbe. When I was looking into the purchase, 5 megapixels and the 3x optical zoom seemed like a pretty good camera, sort of middle of the road for what's out there now. The Cannons look nice too, you have to get a waterproof case if you want to do a wet exit with one of those.

[pat]

I'll give you my opinion, without taking into account the whole kayaking, might drop it in the ocean issue.

The number one criterion should be to buy a camera made by a company that's known for making cameras. The most critical part of a camera, "where the rubber meets the road", is the lens. Good glass comes from a century of research, not from cheap factories in Taiwan.

Good: Nikon, Olympus, Canon, Pentax, etc.
Not-as-good: HP, Casio, Epson, Panasonic, etc.

3 megapixels is probably all you should ever need. More is better, but don't spend a lot of money on an 8 megapixel camera that can be spent on a better 3 megapixel model.

"Digital" zoom is absolutely worthless. The only people on the planet who think that digital zoom has any value is a camera dealer. Base your decision purely on what it has for an "optical" zoom. You might be unhappy with anything less than 3X. If you're into zooming way in, there are plenty of 10X optical zoom cameras out there - not sure how much you'll have to pay for them, though.

Take whatever memory card that comes with the camera and then go out and find a good sale on a larger additional memory card. There are always good deals. Half-gig cards are available for $35.

[getnoutside]

I'm guessing that Pat is probably the most knowledgable of the group regarding cameras. I am a photo finatic, but no expert. I concur with Pat's opinion that the lens is the most important aspect of any camera. I have had good luck with Canon's. I have both the PowerShot A75 and S1 IS. The features are nearly the same (3.2 megapixels, and shooting modes), however the S1 IS has 10x optical and 32x digital. As Pat said, digital zoom is usually useless. However, I have to say that I am finding this not to be true with the S1 IS. While the quality isn't as good, the pics are still useable. Many of the on-the-water pics from the first Hingham Harbor paddle were taken with the digital zoom. The downside of this camera is that it is bulkier than the A75, but I haven't found it to much of a hinderance for bringing along on outdoor activities. The waterproof case is very bulky. However, it is fully functional and I don't have the same carrying contraints when paddling or sailing that I do when hiking. The display of the S1 IS is smaller than the A75 and sometimes difficult to see.

I found this site to be useful when making digital camera decisions.

http://www.steves-digicams.com/hardware_reviews.html

[pat]

I found this site to be useful when making digital camera decisions.

http://www.steves-digicams.com/hardware_reviews.html

Yes, that's definitely the bible of digital camera reviews.

[Todd]

Read all the advice, stopped at a couple of shops on the way home and asked some questions. Colleague at work suggested the moveable viewer so I can take pictures of myself Not to many cameras have that feature. A lot of Kodak cameras. I saw a Canon product that looked interesting and the guy at the store was very knowlegable. I will use the reviews and let you know.

Thanks Todd

[Birdseye]

Colleague at work suggested the moveable viewer so I can take pictures of myself

Are you sure you want to do that?? Digicams are expensive to fix.

[Todd]

Are you sure you want to do that?? Digicams are expensive to fix.

That is why I'll buy the extended service agreement

[getnoutside]

Not that I'm trying to disprove Pat's point about the usefulness of digital zoom (my past experience has been that it is useless, as well)... but, here is a pic I took yesterday with my Canon S1 IS using 32x digital zoom. Granted, it would be sharper with optical zoom, but it's still a much better quality than I've been able to get with the digital zoom on any other camera.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/409537451/409550549lxPXXY

[pat]

The thing with digital zoom is that it's taking the image created by a "small" zoom lens and spreading it out over a lot of pixels. Basically, it's doing the exact same thing that you would do with any computer graphics program by enlarging and cropping an image, similar to this:

<img src="/images/dzoom1.jpg" width="400" height="300" border="1">

<img src="/images/dzoom2.jpg" width="400" height="300" border="1">

Having and using a digital zoom certainly doesn't hurt at all. My point was simply that if you're looking for a long zoom, you will get better quality with an optical zoom that will take the image and record it over the entire recording device, as opposed to recording on the center 10% of the device and extrapolating a larger image using the camera's internal software

All that aside, that is one <i>hell</i> of a photo, Stephen!!

[getnoutside]

The thing with digital zoom is that it's taking the image created by a "small" zoom lens and spreading it out over a lot of pixels. Basically, it's doing the exact same thing that you would do with any computer graphics program by enlarging and cropping an image

Well, I learned something today. I didn't know that.

[Dave]

I keep getting blurry shots with my Optio. I don't know what the equivalent of shutter speed on a digital camera is, but it sure feels like I'm shooting with 400 speed or less, I'm missing my old K-1000 with a roll of 1600 speed. It's pretty hard to hold the Optio steady on the water, I keep hoping I'll get better as I become accostomed to not having a viewfinder, but with the bobbing up and down, and holding the camera 18" from my face to see the screen, it is pretty darned hard to hold it steady. Any thoughts or suggestions?

BTW, had a great week on the Vineyard, paddled Menemsha and Katama Bays, couple of really long trips. Great trip suggestion Nelson! We stopped for a snack at the far end of our Menemsha paddle, very nice. I have pics, as well as pics from my last Turkey paddle, all still on my camera. I'll upload them all and post a link when I get the chance. Got home and my pet sitter had backed up the toilet with ferret litter, flooded the kitchen, ruined the ceiling, and all my fish were dead, (I had some 8 and 9 year olds in that tank ) So, I've been pretty busy hanging a new ceiling and detoxifying a 30 gallon aquarium. I'll get those up in the next couple days though.

[Birdseye]

And I thought having kids was bad sounds like a nightmare.

Glad you had a good trip. How was the wind on Menemsha Pond?

Looking forward to the pics.


Welcome back!

[Dave]

Perfect weather all three days we got out in the boats. That little pond on the other side of the road from the launch was pretty too. I thought it would be the perfect place for some rescue practice. Wasn't really in the mood at the time though. You can get caught on some serious sandbars in those waters! Did the hand crawl thing in both Menemsha and Katama. Beautiful spots though.

Kids would have been cheaper this week! What ya gonna do? You can't get too angry when somebody is doing you a favor to begin with, like our pet sitter. There wasn't any malice, just gross incompetence. I can't wait to dog sit for him

[chpaton]

Dave:

Where did you dump the pet sitter's body? - I promise I won't tell

Regarding digicams: Does your Optio have adjustable ISO settings? You'd think for the price it would, or have some other way of allowing you to prefer faster shutter speeds - like a motion or sports setting?

Not that I have anything against Pentax, but I've developed an affinity for Canons over the years (started with my first SLR a Canon FT in the late 60's). For the about what you paid for the Optio, you can (if you look hard enough) get either an A520 or A510 and a waterproof housing (the camera will cost you between 140 to 200 and the housing about 160). The 520 is 4 megapixel and the 510 is 3.2 - Both have, among other things, selectable shutter priority operation and adjustable ISO settings. Better yet, they have a "regular" view finders as well as the LCD. For a few more bucks you can get an A95 (5 megapixels) with even more bells and whistles. Best thing about all of Canon's A series is they run on rechargable AA batteries, or off the shelf Alkalines in a pinch.

If you don't mind the added bulk (Note: ALL of these are bulkier than your Optio) The Canon S1 PowerShot which Steve has can also be fitted with a waterproof housing, AND it has built in image stabilization to go along with a 10x optical zoom (the A's have 3-4x optical zoom).

Sorry to hear about you pet disaster - Welcome back!

[Dave]

I was thinking about where to dump him, but he wasn't home, and I had a chance to cool down before I saw him.

So I'm guessing from the content of your post, I better break down and just read the owners manual. It has a rediculous number of presets, and I actually know which screen that speed setting would be on if it is there. I just didn't know what I was looking for, I checked for the big analog dial on the top of the camera, and it wasn't there, so I just figured I couldn't adjust the speed. I'll look into it. I definitely think I should be able to get some sharper images than I've been getting. I'll keep playing, one nice thing, it's not costing me for film and developing while I work out the kinks.

Good to be back. Whish I could stick around awhile, heading back to Rochester on Friday for the weekend.

[chpaton]

Dave:

From what I've read about the Optio WP I'm sure you can adjust the ISO settings (50, 100, 200, 400), but I didn't see anything about "manual" exposure control. It has the fairly typical pre-programmed type "picture settings" - I'd guess that "Sport" would give you the fastest shutter speed.

But shutter speed may not be your problem as I also saw a reference to two different types of "autofocus" settings, but I can't say that I understood what they were driving at, but that could also cause the lack of sharpness if the camera isn't focusing on what you want.

[pat]

Steve's Digicams didn't have that model listed, so from what I gathered elsewhere, there <i>is</i> a manual focus option that you might want to try. In addition to giving you firm control over the focus distance, it will probably allow you to shoot faster (that annoying time from when you push the button to when the photo is actually taken), because it doesn't have to figure out the focal distance.

[Dave]

Highest setting is 400, the default is auto, perhaps I should set it at 400 and give that a try next time I'm in the boat. I also have some different focus modes to play with. Next time I'm bobbing in my yak I'll play with the settings.

Here are some links:

Turkeys:


http://community.webshots.com/album/410840408gkbtSc

Vineyard:

http://community.webshots.com/album/410840468ZzSMON

Sure takes a long time to upload!!

Time for bed, working the 5-5 for the week, (Quarterly Reports next week, mark your calenders!)

[Todd]

Ended up with the Canon Power Shot A520. The people at Comp USA were really informative, so I went back to work and bought it online for $70 cheaper than listed. Still playing with it, and slowly reading the manual. Got some shots of mountains, swimming holes high in the hills, and white tail deer.

Thanks for everyones help.